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Help Clutch Replacment Issue (South Bend)

19 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I have a 350z My07 Track which is the HR motor and my clutch just blew. I have recently bought a Southbend 350z clutch/flywheel combo stg 1. I recently received the clutch and my mechanic called me into their workshop to an issue that they believe i have with this part. They advised that they think the South bend clutch that was delievered appeared to be incorrect due to their being a larger gap between the springs of this new clutch (where the CSC sits) compared with the Stock clutch( as you can see in the photos). The springs on the south bend clutch virtually do not cover the CSC which my mechanic and an external exedy clutch specialsit are both recommending i do not install this south bend clutch due to this increased gap between the springs.

Just wondering if anyone has experienced anything like this with a replacement clutch ? or wondering if anyone has any advice ? I contacted the place i bought this clutch from, Concept Performance they are a US company which i have bought parts from in the past with no problems, who advised that Southbend Responded with this: "As the disc in the stock setup wears, the diaphragm spring doesn't move up much because of the self adjusting pressure plate. Going to the DE pressure plate, it's lower to give room for wear in the clutch. If we raised the height of the clutch to the same height of the stock unit, it would bottom out the slave as it wore and start slipping. The center hole is slightly larger, but works fine." ???

My mechanic advised that he cannot guarantee that this clutch will last due to this larger gap between the springs and that it will last 3 months no problems but with use/time he cannot guarantee this clutch will last much monger than that.

.

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Posted · Report post

So they sent you a clutch cover (diaphragm) that is meant for the earlier DE motors? I was reading about this recently on one of the US zed forums where there were clutch kits being sold for the HR which used a slightly modified DE clutch cover, and they were not getting good results (clutch failing quite quickly, usually the CSC failing)

Make sure you upgrade the CSC whilst you have the gearbox out, either to the redesigned 08 factory OEM unit, or preferably the heavy duty one from concept z performance (http://www.conceptzperformance.com/Cart/description.php?II=4592&Car_Type=350Z&UID=20120711172028203.45.61.22)

They also supply different adapter head things (I guess like the "TOB" surface that presses against the fingers of the diaphragm) depending on whether you are going aftermarket or OEM for the clutch kit. (From their site: "We have 2 different kits available to work with whichever clutch kit you may have, Stock, Aftermarket, flat finger or rounded finger designs. The ZSpeed slave kit will work with any aftermarket clutch with the exception of RPS/SZ kits")

This upgraded CSC may solve the problem you have with the fingers not matching up to the "TOB" surface of the OEM CSC.

Have you gone for the Southbend single mass flywheel as well?

Please let us know how you go, I think thats the kit I was looking at upgrading to when mine eventually goes.

Cheers,

Ben.

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Posted · Report post

Hi Ben,

Yes i also went for the southbend single mass flywheel i bought it as a combo.

I bought a replacement EOM CSC from concept z so thats why i am having the problem. I am in 2 minds whether to try return the clutch kit/fly wheel combo and buy another one possibly exedy but that will take plenty of time and i feel concept z are reluctant in doing so.

If i were to try the heavy duty concept z CSC this still may no fix my problem and it costs 325 bucks, i will try contact concept z to see what the overall dimensions of the csc are to see if it will solve my issue. Do you know how much the redesigned OEM 2008 CSC costs ? from what i have heard these parts take approx 2 -3weeks to arrive if ordered from Nissan.

Thanks for the info i definately wont be taking the risk of just installing what i have as it is too risky.

Cheers

Adam

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Posted · Report post

Hey mate

Speaking from experience (I've only recently had to replace all the hydraulics in my clutch system) I can vouch for Coz at CZP as he is where I bought my parts from...he's always been super happy to help out. That being said, the pressure plate you have doesn't look right (the HR pressure plates all have the raised fingers rather than the flat fingers like you can see in the photos that you've loaded).

For what it is worth here is a link to the Exedy HR clutch kit you can see the raised fingers (http://gripforce.com...hr-vq37vhr.html)

Without going into too much detail, the redesigned CSC by Nissan is still a plastic POS....I'm on my 4th slave (of which the most recent 2 have been the 'new redesigned' CSC) so don't even bother going with a Nissan part. The OEM slave simply can't handle a heavy pressure plate and in my case there was an internal seal that died. You basically have 2 options - buy the ZSpeed CSC like I did or replace the OEM type slave entirely.

Depending on the kms of the car it's probably worthwhile replacing the master as well...so when my slave died recently, I ordered the Wilwood Master and Z Speed CSC kit through Coz as I read that the master cyclinder (although bigger than earlier DE Zeds) is also part of the problem...if you go down that route just bear in mind that you'll need to replace the factory hard-line with with a custom braided line and it is actually quite a big job as the hard-line from the master on our cars runs from the master, then down behind the motor, then around the arch of the passenger side front wheel, then to the gearbox (which means it ridiculously long and is about 3 bloody meters of line lol). There's another way to route the line but it involves some fiddling around.

Another guy I know called Chris who I used to go to uni with (funnily enough with the same colour, model and similar mods as myself bahahaha) went through exactly the same thing (although he has only had issues with his clutch and csc twice as opposed to my 4 lol) and he was telling me about ATS making a kit that replaces the CSC with the older type mechanism...but I don't know anything about that.

Bottom line, don't install the clutch if it has the wrong pressure place...do you really want to pay another $750 to drop the gearbox when the new slave shits itself in a couple hundred kms????

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Posted · Report post

Thanks for the advice chris. I have ben very happy with the help that Coz from Concept performance and i have bought other parts from him and had no problems. I emailed a contact from South bend direct (Coz provided his details) and they have basically come back and said that they have sold many modified DE pressure plates for HR motors (which they claim that this reduced height in pressure plate, as a result of flat fingers, has a larger surface area 250mm which can handle greater torque compared to the stock pressure plate which is 240mm) and had no problems, they also say that the stock pressure plate has a self adjusting mechanism and this is why the fingers are raised whereas their modified DE pressure plate has flat fingers to allow more room for the bearing to move closer to the transmission as the clutch wears. So basically they have acknowledged that there pressure plate is a "modified" DE pressure plate with a larger hole where the CSC sits against it and they have said no problems which is what i expected them to say.

So basically Chris are you saying that i should keep this modified older pressure plate but buy the zspeed CSC and the larger hole in the centre wont be an issue ? so infact the diammeter of the zspeed CSC is larger that the stock "POS" CSC ? OR should i try return the south bend clutch/flywheel combo and get the exedy clutch/flywheel combo with the raised fingers ?

Thanks again for the advice.

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Posted · Report post

Hey mate, any updates with your install?

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Posted · Report post

Hi Ben, it has been an interesting few weeks and i think i have fingered it out. I found a thread on my350 z in the U.S that what you were saying was correct that the flat finger design pressure plates are for 2006 zeds and older, however if you are to use the new heavy duty z speed CSC then you have no problem going to the flat finger design and apparently it will be better for the zspeed csc. I myself was advised that if i wasn't going to add too much performance mods on the car then the replacement stock CSC would be sufficient, so i bought the stock CSC along with the southbend clutch kit and flywheel which was the wrong advise since the stock CSC has a flat head on the bearing making it sit perfectly on a raised finger pressure plate setup, whereas the zspeed heavey duty CSC has a rounded end which sits perfectly on the flat finger setup. So at the time i rushed and ordered a new Exedy Racing Stage 1 clutch kit with flywheel as i was very impatient with my car being in the mechanics for over a week and i only found out this information about the flat end Stock CSC and the rounded end Zspeed CSC after i had already bought the exedy kit.

So basically now i am left with a southbend clutch kit and flywheel sitting new in the box so i am going to sell it locally.

Essentially if you are going aftermarket clutch kit buy the heavy duty CSC along with whatever clutch kit as the flat finger and teh raised finger setup will work fine, i was told and read that the best setup is the zspeed heavy duty CSC along with a clutch kit (flat finger pressure plate) with single mass flywheel).

Hopefully fingers crossed my replacement stock CSC lasts with my exedy racing clutch kit and flywheel combo, at this stage no problems but you never know with the crappy stock CSC. I was told by my mechanic it should work fine and give me at least 50,000kms.

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Posted · Report post

Thanks for the info :)

So essentially the southbend kit you have there will work well with the z speed heavy duty csc, but not the stock csc.

Do you have the car back from the mechanics yet? If so, how does the exedy kit feel, and do you get much flywheel chatter?

Ben.

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Posted · Report post

Yep the South bend kit will only work with the zspeed heavy duty CSC. Concept z performance and Zspeed performance both highly recommend the heavy duty CSC with the Southbend clutch kit, you can also read on concept z performance's website that they tested the heavy duty csc and the southbend clutch kit and it works fine. Oh also further from my personal message response zspeed performance advised that with their modified zspeed CSC it now does not require you to grid back the notches in the transmission :).

Yep i have been driving it for a few weeks now and it feels really good, there is a bit of chatter at low revs from take off but its hardly noticable i have an exhaust and it hides the slight chatter.

I do feel the car more responsive and the clutch feels really strong.

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Posted · Report post

Hey guys, This is Joe from ZSpeed Performance and thought I would clear a few things up here.

The Stock CSC is compatible with any of the South Bend clutch kits, Fitment is not the issue as the bearing will have plenty of contact area on the DE style pressure plates once the pressure plate is bolted down to the flywheel. Physically it works fine...

The real problem with the stock CSC is the fact that it is very weak and the poor seal design will blow out in it with any aftermarket clutch eventually. It has a hard time staying alive with the stock clutch, add in a heavier load by an aftermarket clutch and it fails in short time. It is highly recommended to change it out with our HD version with ANY clutch replacement. It's a big job to change it and not something you want to do again after changing the clutch.

 

We have the HD CSC for just about any clutch kit/model available.  If you have questions or concerns please feel free to contact us! We can answer any questions you may have.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

So is southbend the way to go with zspeed csc, msc, and braided lines? Single mass I assume? And lightened?

Been on czp today but can't faint a "kit" for exedy for the HR.

Was going to go exedy so interested to hear about other options.

Would be nice to be able to do a sticky for HR clutch recommendations with details of everything required to do the job right first time :-)

Edited by ugame

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Posted · Report post

So is southbend the way to go with zspeed csc, msc, and braided lines? Single mass I assume? And lightened?

Been on czp today but can't faint a "kit" for exedy for the HR.

Was going to go exedy so interested to hear about other options.

Would be nice to be able to do a sticky for HR clutch recommendations with details of everything required to do the job right first time :-)

We've worked with South Bend Clutch for the last 10 years developing clutches and flywheels just for the Z's and G's, We can customize any South Bend kit to fit your needs and keep custom kits in stock over the stock offerings from South Bend that we think work best in these cars.

 

Our ZSpeed HD slave will work with any aftermarket clutch, We have differerent designs for different clutch set-ups and we have just about all of them covered.

 

We just signed up to Sponsor your forum here so If you guys have any questions, Feel free to PM, E-mail, Or call.  I am here to help.

 

Joe

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Posted · Report post

sooooo the south bend kit purchased by the OP.......was that the correct HR kit, or the DE kit?

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Posted · Report post

sooooo the south bend kit purchased by the OP.......was that the correct HR kit, or the DE kit?

They all use the DE pressure plate, It is actually a hybrid plate as the fingers are longer to work correctly with the OE style bearing, there is plenty of contact on the bearing surface.

 

The OP  has the HD pressure plate (stage 1-2 kits which has a slightly bigger hole then the Stage 3 and up plates) but both will work perfectly.

 

The pics he shows above are of the pressure plate not bolted down to the flywheel with the clutch disk, Once it is bolted down the fingers begin to come in and will then make correct contact with the bearing.

 

The reason they use the DE pressure plate is because it is a much much much better plate design than the HR/VHR plates.

 

Everyone that makes a kit for the 350HR and 370HR use the DE style pressure plate, although they may roll the fingers over to make it look special ;)

 

We have sold and installed many of these kits, they have no issues.

We worked with South Bend Clutch on the design of all the kits to work perfectly in the Z33 Z34 cars.  We installed all of them and tested them all in our own shop cars to make sure everything is good with the design.

 

We do not recommend anyone reuse the stock slave with any clutch, It is simply a pile of garbage and should never be reinstalled. Failure of it has nothing to do with the contact area of the fingers, The seal is garbage and if the seal doesn't fail the plastic release bearing retainer will eventualy break and fall apart blowing the slave from over extension.

 

Less than 6,000 miles on this OEM HR clutch slave. Yes, the bearing is supposed to be attached.

 

 

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Posted · Report post

Nice work zspeed.

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Posted · Report post

Cheers for the info.

So all the talk of the clutch for the HR 350z being same part number as clutch for the 370z...does the same/similar apply for 370z clutch upgrades?

Sorry for noobish posts but give this is something everyone is going to have to do at some point, I'd love to put a sticky together of good solid advice.

Gtg, might PM you later.

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Posted · Report post

Yeah, I might be up for a new aftermarket clutch sometime this year. Would like a sticky with the correct info for a HR powered Z regarding the clutch and other related items.

 

I just want things done correctly first time. Not having to bring the car back due to incorrect parts. (Bad experiences form my previous ride lol)

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Posted · Report post

Cheers for the info.

So all the talk of the clutch for the HR 350z being same part number as clutch for the 370z...does the same/similar apply for 370z clutch upgrades?

Sorry for noobish posts but give this is something everyone is going to have to do at some point, I'd love to put a sticky together of good solid advice.

Gtg, might PM you later.

350Z HR and 370Z VHR along with the G37 G35HR all use the same clutch, fly and slave kit.

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Posted · Report post

Hi Joe, I will be in contact soon in regards to getting the upgraded slave cylinder and master cylinder (I ended up buying the southbend clutch kit and flywheel outlined in the above post).

 

Cheers, Ben.
 

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